Gibe Home
Annoy.com
Message Forum
Search
Log into your account
Create an Identity
Moments
Terms of Use
|
1 2 3 | Next >> Single Page Format / View all Replies
|
| Author |
Topic: Stoned Drivers are Safe Drivers |
| hogeye | Posted: 6/19/1999 12:11:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
From Cannabis Culture:
The largest-ever study into drugs and driving was published in Australia last October. The study was performed by the University of Adelaide and Transport SA, and found that drivers with cannabis in their blood were slightly less likely to cause accidents than those without.
The study analyzed 2,500 accidents, matching blood alcohol and drug levels of injured drivers with details from police reports. Researchers found that drug-free drivers caused the accidents in 53.5% of cases, while drivers with cannabis in their blood had a lower culpability rate of 50.6%. Injured drivers with a blood-alcohol concentration of more than 0.05% were culpable in almost 90% of accidents.
This study confirms the results of a comprehensive 1992 study by the US National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA), which concluded that marijuana is rarely involved in driving accidents except when combined with alcohol, and that "there was no indication that marijuana by itself was a cause of fatal accidents."
A 1983 study by the NHTSA which used stoned drivers on simulators concluded that the only statistically significant effect associated with marijuana use was slower driving! Another NHTSA study performed in 1993 dosed drivers with THC and tested them on real roads. It concluded that "THC’s adverse effects on driving performance appear relatively small."
Here's the whole article.
| | flexiblefish7 | Posted: 6/19/1999 12:33:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
Hogeye, that's because there are LESS stoned drivers than drunk drivers. People go out to bars and partys and generally drink. Then a lot of them tend to drive home with alcohol in their system. We don't have coffee shops in the US like they do in Holland where you can go and smoke a joint and then go home. People who do smoke pot generally do it at home because they don't want to get busted with their stash on them. Were you high when you read this article? Was the person who wrote it high? Also there is a lot more alcohol consumed in this country than pot because alcohol is legal and pot isn't. It seems to me that on a proportional basis (you do the math, you claim to have a math degree) that stoned drivers would be safer. Duh!
Aside from that, I did read the article and I'm immediatley suspicious. Consider the source printing the article, of course they are going to take a pro marijuana stance. And one other thing, I want YOU and all the other Gibers to know that I do support the legalization of marijuana. But have no doubt, if legalization were ever to become reality, I would also fully support that it be taxed and regulated like alcohol. I believe that legalization would solve a lot social problems. However, I don't use the stuff, I quit doing it when I was in high school.
FF7
| | hogeye | Posted: 6/19/1999 1:11:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer flexiblefish> Hogeye, that's because there are LESS stoned drivers than drunk drivers.
Sorry, Flex, you misread the experiment. (I did too - I had to read it several times before I 'got' it. My first reaction was, "Hey, that adds up to more than 100%!" But it makes sense once you figure out their sample.)
Also, since the magazine gave the original sources, you 'have to' disparage those original sources, not the messenger. Are you denying that a "study was performed by the University of Adelaide and Transport SA"? Are you claiming that the results were not reported accurately? Are you denying the honesty of the scientists?
| | cinkcool1 | Posted: 6/19/1999 1:18:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer sowbitch-
Arn't you gone yet?
cink'
| | hogeye | Posted: 6/19/1999 5:40:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer No, Cink, I'm still here. Gibe (cyberspacially) and San Francisco (terrestrially) are still #1 in their respective spheres until I find something better.
| | UncleBob | Posted: 6/19/1999 9:43:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer I think elsewhere (cyberspatially) and hell (eternally) would be good places for now.
| | RichardCranium | Posted: 6/19/1999 10:41:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer Yeah. They're real safe. So safe in fact that I watched a guy smoke at least two joints while waiting to get out of the Tom Petty concert tonight, then promptly smash into the car in front of him who made the eratic unpredictable action of stopping for a stop light. I made sure to yell to the guy he hit that he had been toking. Hopefully he got two tickets tonight.
Keep it at home losers, just like with the booze.
| | RisenPower | Posted: 6/20/1999 5:01:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer I have to agree with flextwat.........The percent of stoned drivers are minimal to the drunk drivers on the road.
Heres a kicker......I know several people that have and still do drive drunk. They dont drive any better/worse, they just drive more cautiously.
I also know a man that was drunk, ran into the back of the car of a woman and baby and killed the baby, while his mother layed in the hospital for weeks. Hes never been the same over that and NEVER has gotten behind the wheel of a car after that. That was about 7 years ago. Hes done his time but doesnt drive anymore.
The stats, IM SURE, have been taken from wrecks and the relate. Theres no way in Hell that they can possibly know all there is about it.
Im with RC.......keep the shit at home and there wont be a problem.
PIMPLE
| | flexiblefish7 | Posted: 6/20/1999 6:24:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
Hogeye,
I am not denying that the University of Adelaide, South Australia did a study, I'm sure they did, it's a highly regarded Australian institution of higher learning.
I question the results to the extent that "Cannabis Culture" is a pro marijuana publication and would only publish scientific data that would lead the reader to believe that their is nothing wrong with being stoned and driving. Or at least imply that they are safer drivers compared to "drunk" drivers. Has "Cannabis Culture" ever printed an article that speaks against marijuana use? I don't know since I have never heard of, seen, or read "Cannabis Culture" until now. How do I know that "Cannabis Culture" published the entire and correct data? By nature, I am very suspicious of any printed material or anything on the web that promotes or advocates illegal behavior.
As for the scientists, I'm sure they performed the test to the best of their ability with integrity and ethics in mind.
As a side note, I don't care what the magazine says, It is not safe to drive drunk, stoned, or on prescription medication that may have the possibility to impair your judgement. Hog, when I was in high school, I smoked so much fucken pot to last a dozen life times. Based on my personal experience, smoking pot impairs one's ability to do anything in a rational and logical manner. Driving a vehicle is the last thing a stoned person should be doing, no, make that, never should be doing. End of sermon, I won't respond unless it's something really good and has a rational base of support.
| | hogeye | Posted: 6/20/1999 11:37:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
I am also suspicious of what I read. A couple of years ago a study came out in a newspaper which claimed that marijuana was proven to be addictive. I thought it extremely unlikely, since it had been considered a non-addictive drug for 3000 years. Did I impute the newspaper that brought the news? No I did not. That would be poisoning the well. Instead I scratched beneath the surface to find out the facts.
It turned out, upon just a little further inquiry, that the experimenters had injected drug X into the rats to disable the brain receptors which 'fit' the cannabinols, preventing the brain from 'absorbing' the molecules. Only then were the rats injected with THC. As a result, the rats showed signs of addiction. In short, what the data actually 'proved' is something that was already known: That humans (and some other mammals) have receptors which fit and process the cannabinols. They proved that cannabis is not addictive unless the natural brain receptors are inoperative. (BTW there is no known disease or drug, other than X, which causes a failure of receptors like this.) The "proof of addiction" turned out to be a 'spin' put on it by the sponsors of the experiment.
Anyway, the point is: saying, "everything written by Cannabis Culture is a lie," is simply poisoning the well. It's not a counter-argument.
PIMP, the experiment does not take all accidents and calc the percent of each drug's use. The way I understand it, there were 3 different samples. #1: accidents where one (and only one) driver was sober. #2: accidents where one driver was drunk #3: accidents where one driver was stoned. This corrects for the proportionally more drivers drive drunk fact. In the accidents with one party drunk, that party was culpable 90% of the time. In the accidents with one party stoned, that party was culpable only 50.6 percent of the time. This is not surprising, since alcohol is much more intoxicating than cannabis. (Why do you think those intoxication tests like walking in a straight line don't work on stoners?)
Flex, you are right that it is not as safe "to drive drunk, stoned, or on prescription medication that may have the possibility to impair your judgement." The experiment does not say that. It does indicate that driving while under the influence of alcohol is significantly more risky than driving while stoned. Thus, it undermines the argument sometimes put forth by law enforcement that legalization would drastically increase automobile accidents. On the contrary, if only a small percentage of people switched from recreational alcohol to recreational pot, there may well be a reduction in auto accidents.
BTW Cannabis Culture is the mag formerly known as Cannabis BC. It's published in British Colombia, Canada, land of seed banks and good sinsemilla.
| | RisenPower | Posted: 6/21/1999 5:30:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
hog......."""#1: accidents where one (and only one) driver was sober. #2: accidents where one driver was drunk #3: accidents where one driver was stoned."""
But the "thing" is hog.......HOW are the cops going to know IF the person is stoned?
Alcohol can be smelled 6 feet away. Marijuana cant be smelled unless you just got through toking on a fish-bowl. Women hold the scent more for the simple fact they wear hairspray and hairspray absorbs the smoke.
I used to be able to get stoned without anybody but BLG knowing I was fucked up. A little visine and nobody knew.
I bet alot of the people that had the wrecks were stoned or under the influence or some other narcotic......nobody knew though.
And the cops arent going to just take someone to the hospital after any wrecks to find out if theyre stoned.........if theres no suspicion. It costs too much and takes too much time........and a treatening lawsuit if its negative. Alcohol can be detected from a breathalizer test in the cop car.
PIMPLE
| | hogeye | Posted: 6/21/1999 7:19:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer PIMP> But the "thing" is hog.......HOW are the cops going to know IF the person is stoned?
Read the fuckin' post. The drivers in the experiment were injured. They found out from blood tests.
| | MasterReprisaler | Posted: 6/21/1999 2:35:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer Druggie zealot.
| | RisenPower | Posted: 6/22/1999 4:55:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer That was for that fucking test hog.
Were talking about in the REAL life situations. Test only target a few in general........not the rest of society.
You mean to tell me that everytime someone gets pulled over the cops need to take them to the hospital to pull blood out and test it for narcotics??
Thats lame and it'll never happen.
Youd be surprised about how many people drive stoned and have wrecks that the cops dont know theyre stoned.
Let me ask you this.......if a man was to drink 8 beers or 8 shots of Vodka, smoke a couple bowls of red bud and get behind the wheel and has a wreck.......what do you blame? The alcohol or dope?
PIMPLE
| | hogeye | Posted: 6/22/1999 7:40:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer In the experiment they threw out those who's blood showed multiple drugs.
Let run through it again. The experimenter looked at the medical records of people who were injured in an accident. They threw out all the people showing multiple drugs. Then they looked at whose fault the accident was, according to the police record. Out of injured drivers showing only alcohol in their systems, 90% were at fault for the accident. Out of those showing only cannabis, barely more than 50% were at fault for the accident.
What does this show? This is strong evidence that alcohol is much more detrimental to driving than cannabis. The magazine's exaggerated (humerous, but misleading) headline, that "Stoned Drivers are Safe Drivers," is not a valid scientific conclusion.
| | RisenPower | Posted: 6/22/1999 12:56:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
Like I said hog.......it was THAT test.
hog......What Im saying is this........
People that smoke pot or shoot caine are going to find ways to make it look "not so badd".
Do you know what pot does to your body besides fuck your head up for a couple of hours?
Not only does it kill your brain cells that cannot reproduce themselves but it weakens your sperm and deteriorates (sp?) your muscle tissue. Thats just for starters.
I personally dont see anything wrong with smoking dope but for someone to try to make it look gold plated is way off base. The only good thing that can come from smoking pot is you get too fucked up to want to fight the next door neighbors dog for his porkchop bone.
I dont know......I just cant buy into the fact that more drivers that are stoned are less likely to wreck than the drunk drivers.
If there were two drivers going around a sharp curve at 90 mph both of them have JUST AS much chance to wreck.
PIMPLE
| | hogeye | Posted: 6/23/1999 11:36:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer PIMP> Not only does it kill your brain cells that cannot reproduce themselves ...
Reality check. Cannabis does not kill brain cells. Alcohol does, but cannabis does not. Cannabinols fit into brain receptors and are harmlessly absorbed. Get your facts straight, PIMP!
Whether there would be fewer accidents depends on whether, when pot is legalized, people would tend to switch to their favorite drug, in this case switch from alcohol to pot, or whether people will tend to do both. If enough people switch from alcohol to pot, then we would expect the number of accidents to go down.
There is some indication that most people do prefer one or the other when both are available. E.g. when the weed comes into a college town, the bar biz tends to be 'slow.'
| | MasterReprisaler | Posted: 6/23/1999 1:41:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer Why even deal with that shit to begin with? Truly intelligent individuals can find no significant justification for trashing their system with that, or any unecessary garbage.
| | Harpo | Posted: 6/23/1999 5:01:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
true.
i recall as if it were yesterday the first time i got in the front seat
with a stoned driver en route to retrieve a pizza.
never having toked before at the time i was somewhat apprehensive
about the matter but nonetheless embarked on this eye opening
adventure.
a few minutes into the trip some cat tore across the road and the
driver reacted with uncanny skill to avoid it.
so much for reefer madness.
in so far as the quasi valid assertions of "polluting the machine"
you have to wonder about all the phenom creativity, particularly
in the arts, which was attributable to these pollutants. then there
are the rain forest people who have been doin shit since time
began. have to think it is mans nature to escape reality from
time to time. would the beetles still be doing dank cellers in
liverpool if not for external influences? what superstar
groups don't owe a great deal of their success to "stuff".
jefferson airplane, grateful dead, etc.
but you can't fool mother nature. don't know of ANY substance
which the body doesn't eventually compensate for resulting in
a diminished return scenario, ie., more of the same to induce the
desired effect.
all in all nothing beats the natural high of an endorphin rush after a good physical workout...........followed by a six pack or two. heh heh.
| | RisenPower | Posted: 6/24/1999 9:35:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer oprah.......That was the first post I could actually understand!! Great job!
Seriously......good post.
As for hog.......Im NOT going to sit here and argue with you about the ups and down of smoking dope. Thats lame. Thats the same as telling a woman that has sex with her dog that its not natural......she thinks it is.
Anyway......I try not to argue 3 points......1.) abortion, 2.) homosexuality and 3.) drugs or alcohol.
I try not to argue anybodys rights. Its a broken down cycle.
PIMPLE
| | hogeye | Posted: 6/24/1999 6:23:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer Just so you remember, PIMP, that cannabis does not kill brain cells. Get your facts straight.
| | MasterReprisaler | Posted: 6/24/1999 6:43:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer Whether it does or does not is not the issue. The attempt on your part to give it the appearance of something grand and good that everyone should take part in, and could be considered foolish for not doing so, is the issue here.
A truly intelligent individual in a satisfactory state of health can find no significantly justifiable purpose for the use of drugs, regardless of their effect.
And maybe if you weren't a will-broken slave to them, you'd realize that too, Hogeye.
| | UncleBob | Posted: 6/24/1999 6:45:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer Damn MR !
I think some brown nosing in in order !!!
| | RisenPower | Posted: 6/25/1999 7:08:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
hog........."""Just so you remember, PIMP, that cannabis does not kill brain cells. Get your facts straight."""
Ive already got my facts straight, twitneck. You choose to only hear what you want to. You try to sugarcoat anything that is beneficial to you (like a child).
Reefer damages your brain cells to the point of no return. Sure, your brain is always developing cells, but the ones that are damaged....cannot "fix" themselves.
Why arent you arguing the point about it breaking down your mussle tissue or the fact that it fucks your sperm up?
Motherfucker.....If Im wrong, I'll be the first to say it when Im called on it. but you know just as well as the other dope heads (hardcore reefer heads, not the occasional smokers) that it fucks your body up.
Take that money that you spend on dope and get some plates and powerbars......you'll feel better about yourself......and have more money.
BTW.......REAL reefer heads grow their shit instead of buying second strain.
Twit-necked, invertebrated, no pussy gettin' cod
PIMPLE
| | MasterReprisaler | Posted: 6/25/1999 10:32:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer Brown-nosing, Uncle? Or are you referring to my apperance of speaking in Swine's "language"?
|
|
Back ~ Post New Topic ~ Post a Reply
Black and White Version
Full color Version
Copyright © 2006 Innoventions, Inc. All rights reserved.
Gibe and Gibe.com are trademarks of Innoventions, Inc.
|