| Author |
Topic: Time to dump the 14th amendment! |
| beelzebub | Posted: 7/25/1997 4:49:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
The 14th amendment which states that anyone born in this country is endowed
with citizenship was ratified to grant citizenship to the children of slaves.
Now there is a very small movement in congress to dump this aged and obsolete
amendment. I say it's about time! And I'm sure someone will label me a racist
for holding this viewpoint, but so what?. That's just a convenient label to use
in the abscence of a logical counterpoint. Besides it's not about racism, it's
about economics. My tax dollars are at stake and I resent the fact that someone
can enter this country ILLEGALLY, have a child, and then receive all sorts of
financial goodies by virtue of the fact that they just became the parents of a
american citizen.
It doesn't help when you have people like barbara boxer(she does not deserve
capital letters)saying "I'm sorry but I'm old fashioned. I believe if you're
born here, you're an american citizen" Well for your incredibly cavalier, and
patronizing viewpoint ms boxer, you will not be re-elected, and I am relishing
the thought of helping to vote your stupid ass out of office. You can do better
than that!
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| JesusChrist | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
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| Craig | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
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| antiusa | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
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| straightdude | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
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| Heterokiller | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
|
| copycat | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
|
| gayusa | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
|
| Newbie | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
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| StraightDate | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
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| Atlas | Posted: 7/25/1997 8:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Well, maybe if the government wasn't so intent on providing little goodies (like heterosexual tax funded marriage benefits) to promote procreation of an already overpopulated planet, you wouldn't have every tom dick and harry with a hard on running to America to spill seed in the first place.
Sow and you shall reap. Ring a bell Beez?
|
| sethgreco | Posted: 7/25/1997 12:09:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Whoooooa!!! Is this Beezle or an imposter!! I am all for not allowing
illegal immigrants the right to populate my country!! But lets take it one
step further and make immigration illegal!!
hehehe...Beezle...You have impressed me with this. I cannot AGREE
more. hehe.
Seth Greco
14Words
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| Bastardo | Posted: 7/25/1997 12:36:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Actually, gayusa, the birthrate in the US is pretty low
compared to the rest of the world, except for Europe.
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| beelzebub | Posted: 7/25/1997 1:18:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Actually gayusa, I was under the impression that
married people get the royal shaft with regard to
taxes. I don't agree with this nex tax credit per
child proposal because there is no alternate proposal
to lighten the tax burden on single, childless
americans.
But you completely ignored the main argument. If
ever there was an amendment to wipe off the books,
the 14th is it. It won't stop illegal immigration,
but it WILL save the taxpayers hundreds of millions
of dollars. And I can't understand why some feel that
we are morally oblidged to bestow citizenship on a
child born from an illegal immigrant. Especially when
we have LEGAL immigrants who have been paying taxes
and waiting for years to be granted citizenship.
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| naturallyblonde | Posted: 7/26/1997 1:10:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
The 14th enables true political refugees to ensure their children are not persecuted for their parents deeds.
Dumping the 14th is covering up one mistake with another. Get rid of the welfare mistake. Make people responsible for their offspring and you save a shitload more money than dumping the 14th ever would.
Jeese, Beelzebub. You talk as though you expect the government to be equitable about taxation and tax breaks. What about singles without children, indeed. What about married couples without children??? What about income-tax-funded public schools where a single parent or single non-parent pays as much tax as TWO married folks? Shit, If I hadn't paid the combined taxes I have, I probably could fully SPONSOR an immigrant of MY choice!
The U.S. should dump welfare and open its borders. That way, we get mostly productive immigrants. (With the added side benefit of fresh blood in the gene pool to prevent more sethgrekos arising—nuthin' sez luvvin' like marryin' yer cuzzin'!)
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| roger2 | Posted: 7/26/1997 8:13:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
The situation is just as bad or worse when
the entry is legal. Adopted Honduran child of
couple (with marriage on the rocks) ends up making
the child a ward of the state. Not only does
the child receive a mountain of benefits from
the state for a 5 or six year period BUT Social
Security funds are abundant before and after
the age of 18. Despite the fact this child has
more or less been a victim of mindless adoptive
parents (one with masters and one with doctorate)
the fact remains she became a taxpayer burden
despite asset base of adoptive/divorced
"parents".
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| fideua | Posted: 7/30/1997 11:26:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
beelzebub, I am impressed. I sure the hell don't agree with any of your thinking, but I am impressed. Would you mind donating a bit of "gray matter" to Seth Greco???
Regarding your opinion to dump the 14th. ammendment (didn't check to see if that really is the one you claim or not, but for arguement's sake: ACCEPTED), How many generations are your family living in the USA, and most probably, unless of course you are the "DAR type", your family also enjoyed the 14th. ammendment!!!
I really suggest that you re-think your initial posting and change it from "Dump the 14th. ammendment" to start a move to RIP the Statue of Liberty off of its' base in NY harbor, and replace it with Seth Greco!!!
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| beelzebub | Posted: 7/30/1997 12:13:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Read the 14th amendment. I think you will find
that it hasn't affected several generations of
american CITIZENS. My argument has NOTHING to do
with immigration which is what you're implying.
Citizenship must be earned. Millions of people
earn that right by applying and passing a citizen
ship test. Is it fair to them that a couple entering
this country illegally has a child, and then presto,
whammo that child is a citizen who qualifies for social
security, medicaid, aid to dependant children, and a
host of other goodies? Is it fair to the american
taxpayer who has to foot the bill for this?
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| roger2 | Posted: 7/30/1997 7:56:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Don't believe much of an analogy can be made
to yesteryear and today. Take a look at
the debate over the need or desire of many immigrants
to learn the language of their new homeland -
there ain't none in many instances. It would appear that the word is out
to many a foreigner to hop over to the states
and grab whatever you can get in the land-of-plenty.
This is not imply ALL immigrants adopt this
perspective but it does appear to be a valid
observation.
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| fideua | Posted: 8/12/1997 4:08:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer |
Beelzebub & Roger2:
I'm totally delighted to actually discuss an issue here at annoy.com with a couple of people who have heads that serve for something other than growing hair!!! We may not agree on issues, but THANK GOD there are intelligent life forms left in cyberspace......
First, Beelze, I accept your comments about actuallyreading the 14 ammendment. It is something that I admit that I have not done, and as such, perhaps the actual wording is different than I am aware, HOWEVER, the question is the INTENT, not the symantics.
Roger2, come on now, you are going to extremes and making "generalized comments" that are NOT appropriate nor realistic.
I am USA born and raised, several generations, and I am an EMMIGRANT, I LEFT the USA!!!!
The immigration laws for 99.9% if not 100% of the countries ALL SUCK, and the USA is certainly not excluded from the group.
As a person who has had to fight, scratch and claw my way to become a "legal resident" in another country, believe me whan I tell you, IT AIN'T AN EASY PROCESS!!! I've even had the pleasure of sitting in the offices of the "regional" director of Immigration in the country where I now live, and to have said to me directly in my face: "why don't you just go back to that FUCKING COUNTRY that you came from. Don't you know we DO NOT WANT AMERICANS (USA) here???"
If a WASC (I'm Catholic and NOT a Protestant) has had to accept that type of SHIT from a country in Europe, just try and immagine what a person from the 3rd. world feels and goes through in the USA!!!!
Clearly immigration is always a wild topic and open to every type of point of view, and clearly there will ALWAYS be people of every race, color, creed, etc., who will do anything possible to get around the "laws", BUT, changing the Constitution to try and "protect" "lily white amerika" is NOT the way to solve the worlds immigration problems.
You give the age old example of "scum who come into the country illegally, the bitch welps and WHAM the kid is a US citizen and gets WELFARE, etc.".... nice story for the LWA's, BUT, you forget about the vast majority of illegals, who are illegal NOT by choice butrather due to the fucked up immigration laws, and who give birth to a child in the US and who DO NOT go on welfare, etc..
NOT such as simple is life as some would like to paint it!!!
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| beelzebub | Posted: 8/12/1997 10:14:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
First of all, I'm black, so protecting "lilly white amerika"
is not very high on my list of priorities. Second of all, yes
lots of people immigrate and then encounter problems with the
process of gaining citizenship. But so what? That has nothing
to do with the basic issue that all a child has to do to gain
citizenship in this country is to be born here regardless of
whether or not the parent(s) is/are citizens. The whole concept
of this was to assure that the children of slaves would receive
the same constitutional protection. We no longer have slavery in
this country(well, not that kind of slavery).
Sure there are lots of problems with our immigration policy. But
if we simply acknowledge that problems exist and then do nothing
about them, what does that say about our chances of long-time(say
2000 years instead of 200+)survival as a nation?
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| naturallyblonde | Posted: 8/12/1997 11:57:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
It's only five fucking paragraphs (the part relevant to this discussion is really only one). READ IT!
http://www.house.gov/Constitution/Amend.html
Uh, fourteen is XIV.
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| beelzebub | Posted: 8/13/1997 12:43:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
NB,
I HAVE read it and *I* could fix it in five
minutes in such a way that it would not affect
one present OR future american citizen. Granted,
it would take congress months of bickering and
argueing to modify it into "lawyer speak", but
it can be done.
This old fashioned concept has to be changed,
it's not right. Americans are terrified of
tinkering with the constitution and this is
foolish. It's not even 300 years old. 300 years
is a blink of an eye in terms of the ascent of
man. We americans are simply arrogant and think
that this document solved all of humanity's
problems. The Roman empire became arrogant also...
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| naturallyblonde | Posted: 8/13/1997 1:39:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Sorry Beelzebub if you were offended. I figured you had already read it, so my last post wasn't directed at you.
I'm not afraid of changing the constitution when change is due; I am opposed, however, to "tinkering"—changing for special interest groups. In this case, U.S. chauvinists.
Open borders let new blood in. Personally, I'm glad Clinton Fein came in and started this site. At the risk of being repetitive, I say that immigration is not the problem; welfare programs are. Anyone in the world should be allowed to come to the States to try their hand at a new life. Then they should be allowed to sink or swim as people did before the coming of the behemoth welfare state.
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| naturallyblonde | Posted: 8/14/1997 11:03:00 AM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
Okay, Beelzebub; you're on. How would you change the amendment to accomplish your ends
in such a way that it would not affect one present OR future american citizen.
In particular, I am interested in how your change would not affect that future U.S. citizen who is yet to arrive here in his foreign mother's womb.
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| GayDemocrat | Posted: 5/15/1998 3:26:00 PM - Reply with Quote ~ Find Messages From this User ~ Refer
YES LET'S DUMP THE FOURTEENTH AMENDMENT!! And after we do so, YOU will be the first that I suggest be denied citizenship based on your utter STUPIDITY. Oh, and by the way, when are you planning on reapealing amendents one through ten as well? And how long has YOUR family been camped out on American soil? American soil STOLEN from the American Indians anyway,I might add! Maybe you should pull your obviously racist, narrow minded head out of your ass and realize that this world was not made for the children of generations old American families, it was made for EVERYONE .. citizenship is too precious to be denying to people for ANY reason.
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